Ahhh, the choices speech

My kids hated that speech when they were growing up. Today they both say it was that speech that helped them to stop and think about the choices they were making throughout life. Not what the instant gratification would be with an easy choice, but what the long term goal was.
While my kids are not perfect (not by a loooooong shot) they have both turned out just fine. Yeah, dd is a vegetarian that was brought up knowing all about beef production (granny and my parents both raised cattle) and she’s a polar opposite to the other three of us on political matters, but she’s a good person that takes responsibility for all her own choices. Ds—you already know all about. The point is either one of them could have gone toward “the government owes me a living” attitude based on the choices their aunt and many of their cousins made, but they chose instead to get good educations (ds is starting on the art degree in the spring classes). Neither is rich, but they are happy with what they have and enjoy their jobs.

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In Texas teachers are paid better salary

but the insurance and retirement is not as good as some states. Plus I have 13 years experience and more education. If they are only making 900 a month they can go to school with Pell grants and low income scholarships. If you are a single mom college is free. Paying for college is VERY different now than even 5 years ago. The problem is that you have to be willing to put in the hours and have the ability to complete the classes. Almost all schools offer an online degree. This is how I am doing my master’s. But it takes a huge amount of discipline to do this. I typically study from 9-11 every night. This is after my daughter goes to bed. Community colleges are set up to help adult students get there degrees. The problem is that it takes a lot of work and there is no immediate pay out. What I see in the school is that if there is not immediate results people do not want to do it. Really is that not what Dave says? It is the same concept as getting out of debt. It takes discipline, hard work, and maybe years to get there.

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I’m actually impressed that you make THAT much

I was under the impression that teachers only made around mid-$30’s. Even YOUR salary is too low for the benefit you provide, IMO. I would have NO objection to good teachers earning $80K. But if someone is working 30 hours in a min. wage job like those two ladies I mentioned, how are they to improve their lot? $7.50 /hr times 30 hrs/week is about $900 per month. Subtract from that rent, food, utilities, and there CAN’T be much left… I never asked thr lady who works at Target what she makes or how much her rent is. She and her 11 y/o daughter live with her mom in a duplex in a crappy part of Detroit. So her rent may be comparatively cheap. I haven’t had detailed conversation with her about her future, but I doubt she can afford to attend college classes right now. Hell, I make MORE than minimum wage, and can’t afford classes at the moment…

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In fact, there is a disadvantage to having things come too easily

It’s called not learning how to work hard for things. Those whose fortunes are gone before they hit adulthood are worse off then the lower middle class child who has to work to find a way to go to school or get a good job. They grow up believing that everything is owed to them, much as the generational poverty family does. The difference is that the rich child believes that the family owes it to them and the poor believes that the government owes it to them. Believe me, I interview these generational poor children and they really do believe that the government owes their family a way to get by. It’s really sad.

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Not everyone “born” rich ends up running a company

Most just live off the money and contribute little to society, while others donate tons of time and money without “working”. It is true that blue collar jobs are mainly labor intensive, but sitting in an office at a C-Suite executive has much more stress than a guy building a car. Those that have the motivation and fortitude that get tossed out on the street will probably bounce back faster than someone that keeps looking for a govt entity to help them. Yes, you could have 5 years of emergency funds saved up and some catastrophic event can wipe out savings, but that happens to such few people in the general scheme of life. That is why you need insurance for home/car/life to transfer the risk in the event something does happen.

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Actually I think you nailed it

Folks who have made careful choices, and made an effort to improve their lives, no matter their starting point or setbacks, are the ones who eventually come out on top. Those who want the free ride, or the easy path, will complain as their path gets a little challenging. Even if their challenges are a lot less than others.

What I don’t like in this whole conversation though, is that there is such a huge discrepancy between the ends of the scale. Payscale has nothing to do, and never did have anything to do, with the amount of hard work someone has to do or had to do, to get where they are. In my little fantasy world of how life “should” be, pay would be equivalent to the effort required to get somewhere, and the effort required to stay there (in terms of how challenging the work is). But it doesn’t work out that way. We all know blue-collar folks who can work, and think, circles around folks who make 4x or 10x their salary. And we all know folks who were lucky enough to be born into circumstances that gave them an easy ticket. I loved the movie Trading Places which talked about this a little bit.

I guess my “takeaway” from all this is that any one of us can find ourselves tossed out in the cold at some point and have to rebuild our lives from scratch. Working at one of these minimum wage jobs is often part of that process, regardless of where we started or how old we are at the time. Even as we ensure that folks don’t take advantage of it, are there ways we can make it easier for them to get out of poverty? Maybe a tad more sympathy for the folks scratching and clawing their way back up the qualify of life scale, particularly from folks who haven’t had that big “Reset – Start Over” button pushed in their lives.

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I work in the school setting as a school psychologist

so I see how hard teachers work. You’ll get no argument from me. I kind of agree. Why should someone working at a fast food job get more than others with more responsibility. We reap what we sow and if they have chosen not to better themselves, then the rest of us should not have to pay for it. There are choices for those who want to improve themselves. Staying at a fast food job for 10 years is not one of them.

I guess I’ll say good for them for at least working, but they probably get assistance as others have said. And, because I work in three low income schools and have worked in many more than that over the last 20 years, I see how these families choose to spend the money. I’ve also seen families make good choices and be able to raise up to 4 kids with low paying jobs. It’s all about choices and when we bail people out of the bad ones, they don’t learn and change their behavior. IMHO, that is what is wrong with our current society. We bail everyone out. If we started holding people more responsible for their choices, people would learn and not keep making the same mistakes. Why should someone with little to no education and few skills make as much as someone who has invested in their ability to earn a living?

I’m sorry if I am offending anyone, but this whole recent debt issue with the government has me all worked up. I have spent more time looking at the numbers and what things are costing and am quite angry at the position that we are in.

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I am under contract 200 days for the school district

I typically get to school at 630 and leave at 430. That is 10 hour day and then I work 1-2 hour s every night and at least 5 hours every weekend. This past summer I went to 4 conferences for 16 days. Let’s call it a typical 8 hour day. That means the past year I have worked approx. 5808 hours. To be fair I will round it to 5800 hours. That means I make 8.27 and hour. I have 2 BS degrees, I finish my MA in December and am going to for an additional one. Really the person that makes a Big Mac has more responsibility than me? I am not complaining about my salary. I knew when I became a teacher that I was asking for long hours. I am lucky I get to work a job I love. But really? Work the hours I work and then whine. Most business owners work what I do plus some and they are not whining. If you do not like your pay/situation go to school and change it.

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Sounds like Detroit

I’ve seen estimates of close to 50% unemployment here. I know two ladies who live there who cannot afford a car, but have to get to work in the suburbs(one as a waitress, one at Target), because there are no jobs in *their* area. That’s a hard life…

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That’s pretty much what I said

except for the statement that those with families can choose other jobs. In some areas it isn’t always a choice. But what happens with all the ‘real’ jobs disappear because of the poor economy, and people with families are forced to rely on minimum wage jobs? You CAN’T pay a mortgage in most areas if you’re only making $900/month. And you can’t just raise minimum wage across the board to $15/hr, for reasons that have been discussed here. So the poorer areas end up with more housing defaults, causing values to drop so that others can’t sell and move to a better economic area.
Are we destined to end up with several large ‘financial black holes’scattered around the country that slowly suck the rest of the nation into them…?

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Our unemployment rate is 16 percent

eight miles south 19 percent, ten miles north has been as high as 36 percent. Would not want to consider any job as exclusively for young people for spending money or even saving for college. May not be meant to support a family but often two of those jobs together are doing just that or the working poor are doing their best. Even clerks at the welfare dept make a low enough wage they can also be eligible for some benefits.

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Those should be the jobs for the young

that are making spending money or saving for college. Those with families can choose other jobs if they want to. In my area, I rarely see these people behind the counter.
This is not the kind of job that is meant to support a family.

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I don’t think so either

I have heard that getting old doesn’t make you sweeter or nicer, just more of who you are. I believe the same thing about money. Money is amoral. It brings out your true character rather than developing your character. I believe we will be who we are regardless of how much money, or how little, we have. If we are greedy and stingy, we’ll be that way as millionaires or paupers. Same about those who are givers—they will give and share whether they are rich or poor.

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Walt Disney World is going over to

the self order system for all their “quick service” meals, as they call them. A prime example is the new “Be Our Guest” restaurant in the remodeled fantasy land. You use a computer screen to order, you are given a “rose” with an rfd chip in it that you touch to the screen and then you go find a table, they locate you by the rose to deliver your emal.
Other quick service restaurants such as Pecos Bills you use the computer screen and then wait at the pick-up counter to get the meal. No human takes your order.
Many fast food places also use automation to cook the fast food already, not at WDW to my knowledge, but it is possible.

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Swap child care

We do it all the time for various things. When moms help each other out, you can avoid needing to pay for a babysitter and i get 1000$ loan from www.lendme1000.com. That is the part that is a big obstacle for any mom with little kids that wants to go to school.

I do think that costs vary quite a bit for college and there are some states with few options, but it is not a universal excuse. Maybe not everyone can afford a 4 year degree, but I see no excuse for not taking advantage of various training opportunities. The problem right now is that the economy is bad, but this has not always been the case.

If one really looks, an opportunity will eventually come. Maybe not within a month or so, but certainly within a few years. Honestly, that should be fine. We should get rid of the idea that people should go full time for 4 years. For most of us, that is the route that comes with student loans. It is much better to go more slowly and graduate with less debt. My former hair dresser did this. She learned to do hair so that she could pay her way through college. It took her longer, but I admire her for it.

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Not act better

but be able to afford to live better in society. If I make money to buy my groceries and pay my rent, I do believe a great majority of people would do so. We have abusers of the public assistance programs for sure, but there are people who want to do better for their family and have nothing but Public Assistance to help in that effort. Those people who could make a livable wage would do so and live.

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Many community colleges around the country

are much cheaper and have evening classes. All a mom has to do is swap with another mom and that pell grant would easily cover tuition. It is called being creative. No, I would never recommend the places you mention, not even for those that can afford it. Tuition is much less in many other places. I realize that it has been 7 years since I finished school, but I went to a state school and never paid more than 2 thousand a semester. The community college option was even cheaper.

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CEOs have responsibilities most never want

If there is accounting fraud, they can now go to jail. they have to manage HR and Finance and every other department, plus if they are public, deal with Wall street and the investors. Even if the CEO was paid less, it does’t mean the guy at the cashier station would make more money. Why would you pay a HS graduate $30 to take money for food orders? Many items in Fast Food are going to be automated. We don’t need someone taking our orders. You can order at a kiosk or on your phone now. I use the Which Wich app because the store near me has long lines. I order 20 minutes before I want lunch and go walk down and pick it up. There are places where you order on the screen and pick up the food. Drinks are automated at McD and I am pretty sure french fries are as well. So really, it will come down to a few people putting orders together or making sure there is ketchup in the machine.

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It may be the area where you live

I have worked in 4 states and I see racial differences with this as well. Here in Baltimore, they went a disability check because a child cannot pronounce r correctly. The schools fill out hundreds of these each year and that is how i know. We see the same families that ask for Xmas help wasting 20 dollars on lottery tickets frequently. The worst is that they might even ask for the help within the same trip (we have a convenience store across the street from the school). And, because I evaluate children as part of my job, I do interviews with them. It is very consistent that they believe this. They exploit the system our school social workers pull together resources for a family and then go to the home to give them out only to find a huge supply of beer and cigarettes. Even though we have free school lunch and universal breakfast for all, they pick up fast food for the kids. So, it is not even a matter of them attempting to use a grocery store. I sit in team meetings where I hear it from the parents. They complain about how the government does not help them enough in one sentence and then talk about buying an expensive video game system in the next sentence. They pull out phones that cost more than mine does and still get food stamps. am not sure where you work, but it is the worst that I have ever seen it these last few years. The parents at my schools are not like the ones that you describe.

I will add that the fast food places are further than the grocery stores. They are in the same general shopping area and the grocery store is not more expensive. I do hear a lot of talk about what you describe, but it is all talk. When provided with resources for helping themselves, they do not follow through. I have been in the schools since 1994 and it has gotten worse with time.

I would agree that there is a subset of our poor that are not this way, but these tend to be the immigrants or those whose poverty came from something other than multiple generations.

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I guess that’s what caught my attention

When my first husband walked out, I was in a minimum-wage job just trying to earn some extra cash. Suddenly, literally overnight, it was the only way I had to pay my bills. This was years before I’d ever heard of DR, and I had a little savings but not much. That single event was what put my on my spiral down into credit hell. So yes I agree that those jobs aren’t intended to be held by the principal bread-winners of the family. Nevertheless, sometimes it works out that way. The part I was most annoyed about was the double-whammy that the CEO’s are taking home as much as the taxpayers are paying out to keep those people barely scraping by. I watched Les Miserables the other day and thought “you know, we’re not that far away from this storyline…….”

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Millions of people voted for Hitler

How do you think they felt when he had millions executed? Was the fact that everyone else voted for him something that made them feel better?

There’s a saying I’d use that was recently used in Batman Begins. It’s our actions that define us. Do you want to be defined by porn? Do you want to look your daughter or son in the eyes and know that you’re helping sell sex, which includes lies and deception to get teens to have sex on camera without having realized that means millions will be watching them? Will you feel good if you invest in porn, then find that one of those companies you invest in has hired your daughter to have sex with someone older than you and she gets a few hundred dollars or a few thousand, but it means for the rest of her life, there are videos floating around on the Internet and on people’s hard drives and on DVDs for her and her husband and her kids and you to see?

Do you like that idea and do you like defining yourself as someone who helps do that to other men’s daughters and sons?

Is that something you would be proud of doing and proud to tell your kids that you do?

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The contemporary slave trade is

fueled almost exclusively by the “adult entertainment industry”. It wouldn’t be far off the mark to suggest that _every_ investor in a business in the adult entertainment industry can be convicted of either slave trafficking, or owning slaves. (This is as true in Los Angeles, as it is in Riyadh.)

I guess I should also point out that the contemporary slave trade is almost as big now,as it was when Wilbur Wilberforce preached his first anti-slavery sermon. Probably the biggest difference is that slaves are much cheaper now, than they were back then.

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Diifernt type of MLM – woulf you

I am considering joining an MLM called the ‘AllXClub’. This is the Link I have been looking at:

MyAllXClubVIP.com – this is my friends site, and I have been on the fence with it not sure if I want to jump in. There is no large signup amount – but a membership is required. Depending on the membership you buy, the cost is between 20 to 40 a month.

He is doing very well, and swears by it.

I have 2 hesitations:

1. its an MLM
2. its an MLM in the Adult Industry.

Could anyone/everyone take a look and tell me what you think. I have never gotten involved in anything like this and would love some feedback.

Thanks – I would be totally grateful for any feedback.

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